Lean and automation - I see more and more people saying "sustainable lean = good automation" How do you respond to this? - General Discussions

Anil K · 2015-11-19T07:51:41+00:00

.demo { border:1px solid #C0C0C0; border-collapse:collapse; padding:5px; } .demo th { border:1px solid #C0C0C0; padding:5px; } .demo td { border:1px solid #C0C0C0; padding:5px; } Oscar Rodriguez-Gonzalez They are complementary Vishwadeep Khatri Hi Oscar, the question raises the concern that people consider lean to be merely equivalent to automation. Any thoughts? Manoj Singh Good automation is one part of sustainable Lean. For sustainable lean we must focus on PPT (people, process, technology). If only good automation = sustainable Lean then all Fortune 500 would have sustainable lean at the same level as Toyota. Partho Banerjee LSSBB I agree with Manoj. Automation is a Lean of the enabler tools. There are processes which cannot be operated unmanned and still can be called a sustainable lean process by using other tools such as Poka-yoke etc. Please correct me i am wrong Aniruddha Sahasrabudhe Hi Vishwadeep, Based on my real life experiences in Automobile & Aerospace Manufacturing & Engineering Design Services , my comments / views on "sustainable lean = good automation" are as under A) Primary Intent of a " LEAN " Process in an Organization : Primary intent of making a process " LEAN " is to eliminate waste ( of Men , Material , Money , Idle Time or any other activity that does not add any value to the process ) from it so as to make it Sustainable , Optimal and Deliver Defect Free Products / Service conforming to the Requirements / Specs.of Quality , Cost & Delivery Time of the End user / Customer. " Good Automation " : Frankly speaking I do not know definition & examples of Good , Better , Best or Bad Automation. I go by simple concept of Automation that primary intent of the Automation is to a) Reduce / Eliminate element of subjectivity due to Human fatigue from a repetitive task and ultimately deliver Defect Free Products / Services to Customer and Ensure uniformity of Quality of Products / Services delivered to a Customer Examples : i) Currency Counting Machines in banks : Here can't think of manual counting of currency deposited / withdrawn from a bank due to high volume & value of currency deposited / withdrawn each day. ii) Process of Painting of Cars - Here can't think of manual painting instead of Robots due to high volume of production of cars / day iii) Cold Drinks / Beverage Bottling Plants - Here can't think of manual filling & sealing due to very high volume of production of Cold Drinks / Beverages / day. To sum up I am of the opinion that * There may be " sustainable lean " processes with partial or without " Automation " in organizations who do business in a Service or Non Manufacturing sector. * The other possibility also can't be ruled out i.e. There may be some " Automated " processes in an entire supply chain in Manufacturing sector but the entire process per say may not qualify to be truly called " LEAN " since there may be scope for reduction / elimination of waste in some part of the process. Therefore one should not blindly state the Hypothesis "sustainable lean = good automation" without really defining / knowing the details / context of the process being discussed. Regards Aniruddha Vishwadeep Khatri Mr. Aniruddha, Good to see a well presented detailed comment from you, like always. Oscar Rodriguez-Gonzalez I agree with the comments. And to add a little more: Things that Automation does not have: * Lean-thinking * Lean-business Things that Lean does not have: * Robotics * Machine-learning Things that both have in common: * Error-proofing * Philosophy of waste reduction There is a lot of ground to cover in this discussion. Probably the most illustrative example to visualize their compatibility is the use of Agile (the IT version of lean) to create software (automate). In this case lean (agile) does the project management and automation is the product. A Value stream map could also help to identify the areas to be automated (improved). Probir Bosé, MBA, LSSGB Aniruddha - I really like how your response is so brief and succulent. Actually, I was a bit amused and did manage a slight chuckle when I read it !! You see, first I read Vishwadeep's comment about your post which was on the lines of "a well presented detailed comment” and was slightly intrigued. Needless to say, when I clicked on the link to read further, I was actually visualising your post to be very literary, with detailed explanations on different approaches and conceptual theories and frameworks. blah, blah..; instead I was gently reminded yet again that often even the most simplified and 'to the point' observations can be just as remarkably effective. Hehe..Like. Uma Great read Aniruddha! well explained with examples!....While I second you that a direct equation could not be brought between sustainable lean and automation without the context (best example is healthcare/hospitals where this theory is not proved), can we say an intelligent automation (not only to replace manual effort, but also eliminates the NVAs) accelerates the lean methodologies and sustain process excellence. In these many years, the iterations of lean concept has evolved to include definitely a level of technology integration. My 2 cents! Siddarth Shankar Instead of calling it automation ( which is fully automating, and not realizing the risks behind building a monster) I would follow Autonomation which is more an intelligent automation. Helps to have a bit of manual control instead of e2e automation which is not controlled. Information / material flow with out manual touch is automation , information / material flow with a manual touch only on quality controls is lean. Cause automation is easy when it come to standard process. The challenge is when you have to bake in all exceptions/ deviations customer wants and then lean comes into play to decide what really is value add and what's not and what needed but not value add. Sivakumar Viswanathan Needs to be viewed in a more flexible context. Lean is about building a culture of questioning status-quo, by bringing process improvements at the grassroots level. It involves a careful and smart mix of automation with human touch - autonomation !!! Hence automation is part of the game, but if there is a better way of performing a task(or process), then automation should be adaptable.....!!! Venkat Narayanan Iakshminarayanan No. Even many companies are doing automation activities separately from lean they show it as kaizen. Lean to be looked at holistic approach Gopal Bhat I agree to some extent. Actually LEAN principles are substitute to automation where practically full automation is not possible. However, the big difference between LEAN and process automation is that LEAN leaves further scope for continual improvement where as automation in principle puts an end to CI thinking. Surendra Patil Hi Vishadeep, When you posed this question for discussion, I hope you want us to discuss the concepts behind the basic tools of Lean and surfacing out the misconception of relating part of tools and technique referred as whole concept. Most of people have already explained in above discussion about the definitions of both ‘Automation & Lean’ Most of the time in organization mangers are tend to use the tools & technique in which they are good, (if all you have is a hammer, everything look like a nail) undermining the effect of it on whole organization as a system. When Taiichi Ohno was first used the basic principal of maximization of flow of product and developed techniques to solve the problems in his own company, and never referred as Lean Management. But it was named as ‘Toyota Production Systems’ as because it was developed to suit to certain environment. Later on which was named as JIT ( just in time ) and Lean management by team of professors under leadership of prof. James P. Womack those who have visited Japan for study the success of Toyota. While applying any tools & technique of lean management in any part of organization one should not ignore it’s effect on total system and not on part of the system in isolation. Most of the time the improvements done on department level (low level automation is a good example) dose not lead to organizations performance. As because the underlying assumption that sum of improvements at local level is equal to global improvement, is not valid. We should consider the organization as system of dependent events and will carry the effect only at leveraging point. Hence automation in part of the system may or may not have direct effect on organization’s performance. If it is downstream of constraint then it will lead to increase the inventory and if it is upstream then will starve for material.(Assuming the automation will increase the rate of production.) If automation is for reduce the fatigue / human error and increase the quality then certainly it will add the value. Effect of automation can also be verified with financial measures, which will link to organizational performance. While implementing Lean management thrust should be given on flow maximization and not on the reduction of cost with using tools and techniques. We particularly Indian managers are wise enough to articulate the solution first and then fixing it in a particular tool & technique. (this may call for separate debate).

November 19, 201510 yr

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We had a recent discussion on this topic. All forum members are invited to continue this discussion here.

	Oscar Rodriguez-Gonzalez They are complementary
	Vishwadeep Khatri Hi Oscar, the question raises the concern that people consider lean to be merely equivalent to automation. Any thoughts?
	Manoj Singh Good automation is one part of sustainable Lean. For sustainable lean we must focus on PPT (people, process, technology). If only good automation = sustainable Lean then all Fortune 500 would have sustainable lean at the same level as Toyota.
	Partho Banerjee LSSBB I agree with Manoj. Automation is a Lean of the enabler tools. There are processes which cannot be operated unmanned and still can be called a sustainable lean process by using other tools such as Poka-yoke etc. Please correct me i am wrong
	Aniruddha Sahasrabudhe Hi Vishwadeep, Based on my real life experiences in Automobile & Aerospace Manufacturing & Engineering Design Services , my comments / views on "sustainable lean = good automation" are as under A) Primary Intent of a " LEAN " Process in an Organization : Primary intent of making a process " LEAN " is to eliminate waste ( of Men , Material , Money , Idle Time or any other activity that does not add any value to the process ) from it so as to make it Sustainable , Optimal and Deliver Defect Free Products / Service conforming to the Requirements / Specs.of Quality , Cost & Delivery Time of the End user / Customer. " Good Automation " : Frankly speaking I do not know definition & examples of Good , Better , Best or Bad Automation. I go by simple concept of Automation that primary intent of the Automation is to a) Reduce / Eliminate element of subjectivity due to Human fatigue from a repetitive task and ultimately deliver Defect Free Products / Services to Customer and Ensure uniformity of Quality of Products / Services delivered to a Customer Examples : i) Currency Counting Machines in banks : Here can't think of manual counting of currency deposited / withdrawn from a bank due to high volume & value of currency deposited / withdrawn each day. ii) Process of Painting of Cars - Here can't think of manual painting instead of Robots due to high volume of production of cars / day iii) Cold Drinks / Beverage Bottling Plants - Here can't think of manual filling & sealing due to very high volume of production of Cold Drinks / Beverages / day. To sum up I am of the opinion that * There may be " sustainable lean " processes with partial or without " Automation " in organizations who do business in a Service or Non Manufacturing sector. * The other possibility also can't be ruled out i.e. There may be some " Automated " processes in an entire supply chain in Manufacturing sector but the entire process per say may not qualify to be truly called " LEAN " since there may be scope for reduction / elimination of waste in some part of the process. Therefore one should not blindly state the Hypothesis "sustainable lean = good automation" without really defining / knowing the details / context of the process being discussed. Regards Aniruddha
	Vishwadeep Khatri Mr. Aniruddha, Good to see a well presented detailed comment from you, like always.
	Oscar Rodriguez-Gonzalez I agree with the comments. And to add a little more: Things that Automation does not have: * Lean-thinking * Lean-business Things that Lean does not have: * Robotics * Machine-learning Things that both have in common: * Error-proofing * Philosophy of waste reduction There is a lot of ground to cover in this discussion. Probably the most illustrative example to visualize their compatibility is the use of Agile (the IT version of lean) to create software (automate). In this case lean (agile) does the project management and automation is the product. A Value stream map could also help to identify the areas to be automated (improved).
	Probir Bosé, MBA, LSSGB Aniruddha - I really like how your response is so brief and succulent. Actually, I was a bit amused and did manage a slight chuckle when I read it !! You see, first I read Vishwadeep's comment about your post which was on the lines of "a well presented detailed comment” and was slightly intrigued. Needless to say, when I clicked on the link to read further, I was actually visualising your post to be very literary, with detailed explanations on different approaches and conceptual theories and frameworks. blah, blah..; instead I was gently reminded yet again that often even the most simplified and 'to the point' observations can be just as remarkably effective. Hehe..Like.
	Uma Great read Aniruddha! well explained with examples!....While I second you that a direct equation could not be brought between sustainable lean and automation without the context (best example is healthcare/hospitals where this theory is not proved), can we say an intelligent automation (not only to replace manual effort, but also eliminates the NVAs) accelerates the lean methodologies and sustain process excellence. In these many years, the iterations of lean concept has evolved to include definitely a level of technology integration. My 2 cents!
	Siddarth Shankar Instead of calling it automation ( which is fully automating, and not realizing the risks behind building a monster) I would follow Autonomation which is more an intelligent automation. Helps to have a bit of manual control instead of e2e automation which is not controlled. Information / material flow with out manual touch is automation , information / material flow with a manual touch only on quality controls is lean. Cause automation is easy when it come to standard process. The challenge is when you have to bake in all exceptions/ deviations customer wants and then lean comes into play to decide what really is value add and what's not and what needed but not value add.
	Sivakumar Viswanathan Needs to be viewed in a more flexible context. Lean is about building a culture of questioning status-quo, by bringing process improvements at the grassroots level. It involves a careful and smart mix of automation with human touch - autonomation !!! Hence automation is part of the game, but if there is a better way of performing a task(or process), then automation should be adaptable.....!!!
	Venkat Narayanan Iakshminarayanan No. Even many companies are doing automation activities separately from lean they show it as kaizen. Lean to be looked at holistic approach
	Gopal Bhat I agree to some extent. Actually LEAN principles are substitute to automation where practically full automation is not possible. However, the big difference between LEAN and process automation is that LEAN leaves further scope for continual improvement where as automation in principle puts an end to CI thinking.
	Surendra Patil Hi Vishadeep, When you posed this question for discussion, I hope you want us to discuss the concepts behind the basic tools of Lean and surfacing out the misconception of relating part of tools and technique referred as whole concept. Most of people have already explained in above discussion about the definitions of both ‘Automation & Lean’ Most of the time in organization mangers are tend to use the tools & technique in which they are good, (if all you have is a hammer, everything look like a nail) undermining the effect of it on whole organization as a system. When Taiichi Ohno was first used the basic principal of maximization of flow of product and developed techniques to solve the problems in his own company, and never referred as Lean Management. But it was named as ‘Toyota Production Systems’ as because it was developed to suit to certain environment. Later on which was named as JIT ( just in time ) and Lean management by team of professors under leadership of prof. James P. Womack those who have visited Japan for study the success of Toyota. While applying any tools & technique of lean management in any part of organization one should not ignore it’s effect on total system and not on part of the system in isolation. Most of the time the improvements done on department level (low level automation is a good example) dose not lead to organizations performance. As because the underlying assumption that sum of improvements at local level is equal to global improvement, is not valid. We should consider the organization as system of dependent events and will carry the effect only at leveraging point. Hence automation in part of the system may or may not have direct effect on organization’s performance. If it is downstream of constraint then it will lead to increase the inventory and if it is upstream then will starve for material.(Assuming the automation will increase the rate of production.) If automation is for reduce the fatigue / human error and increase the quality then certainly it will add the value. Effect of automation can also be verified with financial measures, which will link to organizational performance. While implementing Lean management thrust should be given on flow maximization and not on the reduction of cost with using tools and techniques. We particularly Indian managers are wise enough to articulate the solution first and then fixing it in a particular tool & technique. (this may call for separate debate).