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No. Not at all. Completing DMAIC Or DMADV project undoubtedly will give great confidence for any professional in this field. The "Hands on experience to say". Such an experience is definitely required

No.  As per the previous question, if the organisation does not allow the BB/ GB to do a DMAIC project, the opportunity is not given to him to prove his skill set.    But in such cases,

Valid point Santosh, but    Given that in some industries (eg: Consulting)   where LSS is not encouraged but there are enough high quality profiles, would we want to be limited by this requ

YES

As a Lean Six Sigma improvement program manager,  the person will have to deal with strategic, tactical and cultural aspects of a change management. The tactical portion involves knowledge and experience in applying specific tools. The cultural component involves dealing with people behavior, within team and across stakeholders. One of the most popular challenges to face during and improvement implementation is to overcome resistance to change and to obtain stakeholder buy-in. Each leader has his / her own ways of dealing with such situations. However, unless the person has actually undergone these situations as part of leading an improvement program,  he / she would not have developed those capabilities. This is one of the main objectives of ensuring that the person has experience of leading a project using a structured methodology, and that's what DMAIC / DMADV represent. So long as we are able to recognize that the person possesses such experience, whether we call it DMAIC or by any other terminology, it may be acceptable. These terminologies are just popular ones that convey a form of PDCA cycle,  but we need not get tied down by just these phrases.

 

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My stand is NO.

 

In my opinion it should be a "Good to have" requirement. I strongly feel the following two aspects should be given more importance:

 

1. The Professional's familiarity and understanding of Lean Six Sigma concepts and his attitude/thought process towards the concept of "Continuous improvement". This aspect would indicate if the person would be able to identify, initiate and promote improvement activities. 

2. The Professional's overall job experience. This would highlight his skills related to working in a team, leading projects, ability to communicate with the management, handling conflicts and so on which are critical for executing any six sigma project.

 

I would agree that a person with prior project execution experience may be more familiar with all the aspects of project execution, but he may not be essentially a keen promoter of continuous improvement culture. Also, the ambience under which he completed the projects is an unknown factor. For example, there could have been high level of support that he received from the management and his team, enabling him to complete the projects. On the other hand, a professional with the right attitude and skills may turn out to be a better option ( albeit with some mentoring or learning gap). 

 

The points 1 and 2 identified above could be evaluated with well drafted detailed interview questions involving case study analysis and presentations. The completion of a full-fledged DMAIC or DMADV project should be a "good-to-have" requirement, and making it an essential criterion may not be the right thing to do.

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YES

I can see that the points made by Arunesh are very good and carries the relevant spirit and principle for this hiring purpose. Even if we say that the formal completion of a project is essential, it is important to assess a candidate on his capabilities. An experienced interviewer can quite effectively assess the candidate's capability by engaging in right discussion, whether the claim that he / she has completed the project has given him / her the right experience, though we may not fully understand the circumstances in his / her organization. We are discussing about hiring a managerial position as a BlackBelt, for Lean Six Sigma improvement. By definition, one can become a BlackBelt only if they have demonstrated capability of completing a project as required by the guidelines. Then, how does the question arise whether the completion of project is essential or not? Unless, we are trying to redefine the accepted definitions for SixSigma Blackbelt.

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No,

 

Certification gives recruiter only an indicator about your specialization which should not affect your credibility untill and unless you have considered the certification as a tool to climb the corporate ladder.

Any certification would  help you to follow a systematic approach to achieve the very purpose of certification .In our case ,purpose is to solve the problem.

 

Even today,80% of process problems are resolved by people who don’t have any understanding of Six Sigma tools but there approach follows the lean philosophy.

Out country is not yet ready to embrace the lean philosophy as an important identity of any success but our basic core is full of it and we have been practicing it for a very long time.

I have implemented various successful projects not by deploying six sigma tools on to the ground (as that is gibberish to floor people) but by embedding lean philosophy in their work culture.

To conclude ,even with the Black Belt certification I have never got a chance to implement a complete black belt project ,however I am able to develop the lean philosophy by understanding the actual need to solve the problem.

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4 minutes ago, Venugopal R said:

YES

I can see that the points made by Arunesh are very good and carries the relevant spirit and principle for this hiring purpose. Even if we say that the formal completion of a project is essential, it is important to assess a candidate on his capabilities. An experienced interviewer can quite effectively assess the candidate's capability by engaging in right discussion, whether the claim that he / she has completed the project has given him / her the right experience, though we may not fully understand the circumstances in his / her organization. We are discussing about hiring a managerial position as a BlackBelt, for Lean Six Sigma improvement. By definition, one can become a BlackBelt only if they have demonstrated capability of completing a project as required by the guidelines. Then, how does the question arise whether the completion of project is essential or not? Unless, we are trying to redefine the accepted definitions for SixSigma Blackbelt.

Hi Sir,

 

Good day. I support that the BB requires a formal education with certificates of completion. 

 

I will try to simulate a scenario. If i am a GB and undergone a BB training and completed the course with formal certification process.

My organisation is only interested in short wins like Kaizen, lean, etc and not project taking more duration or there is no opportunity for any BB project.. In such case, i will only be able to demonstrate the knowledge but not practical experience.

 

Practical experience i will be able to demonstrate only if i simulate with dummy project data or if i am allowed to take up a BB project if any..

 

Hence, a BB should hold a sound knowledge in LSS concepts and usage of the tools. But not mandaate to have a project experience.

 

thanks

Kavitha

 

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3 minutes ago, Kavitha Sundar said:

Hi Sir,

 

Good day. I support that the BB requires a formal education with certificates of completion. 

 

I will try to simulate a scenario. If i am a GB and undergone a BB training and completed the course with formal certification process.

My organisation is only interested in short wins like Kaizen, lean, etc and not project taking more duration or there is no opportunity for any BB project.. In such case, i will only be able to demonstrate the knowledge but not practical experience.

 

Practical experience i will be able to demonstrate only if i simulate with dummy project data or if i am allowed to take up a BB project if any..

 

Hence, a BB should hold a sound knowledge in LSS concepts and usage of the tools. But not mandaate to have a project experience.

 

thanks

Kavitha

 

Got your point, Kavitha. Then, are we trying to redefine the criterion for a BlackBelt? Then, it become as different debate.

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Just now, Venugopal R said:

Got your point, Kavitha. Then, are we trying to redefine the criterion for a BlackBelt? Then, it become as different debate.

And if the organization did not offer the opportunity, then it simply amounts that you do not get that experience. Any such project done using dummy data will not give the requisite experience and that can be well evaluated by the hiring org. But the hiring org is looking for that experience... then they better hire someone who has it.

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1 minute ago, Venugopal R said:

Got your point, Kavitha. Then, are we trying to redefine the criterion for a BlackBelt? Then, it become as different debate.

sir, I am not saying we have to redefine the criterion for a BB. But if required, we definitely can. My context to the previous explanation is related to managerial role..

 

GB promoted to next level with prerequisite of BB completion certificate was my context.

 

My state is again, No. If BB is to promoted for managerial level, project completion is not mandate if he / she possess all relevant skill sets.

 

If the interviewer is able to extract the good of him, there is a success.

 

thanks

Kavitha 

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2 minutes ago, Venugopal R said:

And if the organization did not offer the opportunity, then it simply amounts that you do not get that experience. Any such project done using dummy data will not give the requisite experience and that can be well evaluated by the hiring org. But the hiring org is looking for that experience... then they better hire someone who has it.

Sir, If the opportunity is not given to prove his theoretical knowledge, how will he learn? where will he learn? 

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Just now, Kavitha Sundar said:

sir, I am not saying we have to redefine the criterion for a BB. But if required, we definitely can. My context to the previous explanation is related to managerial role..

 

GB promoted to next level with prerequisite of BB completion certificate was my context.

 

My state is again, No. If BB is to promoted for managerial level, project completion is not mandate if he / she possess all relevant skill sets.

 

If the interviewer is able to extract the good of him, there is a success.

 

thanks

Kavitha 

My understanding is that even GB should have completed a project. Again, it may not be right to say that the org did not provide opportunity.... every org will welcome an improvement effort. If a trained BB does it, he / she has to do it by applying the tools and the DMAIC phases... that's it.. Not sure why we want to go in circles and question these methodologies that have been evolved through years of wisdom and experience.

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Guest Smitha

Yes. A  certification with project experience is reqd. Just a certification would confirm acedamic knowledge and is not a great indicator of working knowledge of the concepts or the methodology of DMAIC. While some companies don't have six sigma in their DNA, as a black belt  wanting to do projects in such organisation, one can seek help from the institute where the certification has been done. If theory is not backed with pratical knowledge, hallowness would prevail and there would be always be an element of doubt in everything that is proposed n it would be left to luck for the concept to click.  On the other hand, in an organisation which practises six sigma methodology, recruiters would opt to recruit a black blet with project experience. Hence, I strongly believe that Black belt certification with project experience is a must.

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Yes.

We need an experienced LSS.BB for an fully fledged DMAIC or DMADV project, as the job is for a manager role and the person should have a good experience in handling projects at any phase and in any situation. And if the person have lots of knowledge he/she can helps the project by using the appropriate tools to measure or in any other phase's. And this ends up with a better result.

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No

 

My basic understanding is as follows:-

  • Every business problem or improvement opportunity does not need to be resolved with the help of Six Sigma or Design for Six Sigma methodology
  • Every improvement project cannot be treated as Six Sigma (SS) or Design for Six Sigma (DFSS) project
  • The LEAN Six Sigma project selection process and project type criteria vary from industry to industry and company to company

The reasoning behind my answer is as follows:-

  • According to my basic understanding, the real challenge lies in the application of SS and DFSS tools and techniques to resolve ongoing & critical business problems. This is the prominent area a Black Belt professional shall be evaluated on; in terms of his  / her knowledge, experience and skill-sets
  • This evaluation has no connection with the type of improvement project Black Belt worked on i.e. Six Sigma DMAIC or DMADV

Conclusion: If LSSBB professional is competent enough to explain the application of DMAIC or DMADV tools and techniques to deliver savings; in case of multiple & multifaceted improvement projects, then his / her profile shall be short-listed for the position

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21 minutes ago, Nilesh Bhanushali said:

No

 

My basic understanding is as follows:-

  • Every business problem or improvement opportunity does not need to be resolved with the help of Six Sigma or Design for Six Sigma methodology
  • Every improvement project cannot be treated as Six Sigma (SS) or Design for Six Sigma (DFSS) project
  • The LEAN Six Sigma project selection process and project type criteria vary from industry to industry and company to company

The reasoning behind my answer is as follows:-

  • According to my basic understanding, the real challenge lies in the application of SS and DFSS tools and techniques to resolve ongoing & critical business problems. This is the prominent area a Black Belt professional shall be evaluated on; in terms of his  / her knowledge, experience and skill-sets
  • This evaluation has no connection with the type of improvement project Black Belt worked on i.e. Six Sigma DMAIC or DMADV

Conclusion: If LSSBB professional is competent enough to explain the application of DMAIC or DMADV tools and techniques to deliver savings; in case of multiple & multifaceted improvement projects, then his / her profile shall be short-listed for the position

When you say LSSBB professional, doesn’t it imply that he / she comes with the relevant experience?

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YES.

We are hiring a professional in an improvement manager job role. He should not only have undergone classroom training or a certification but also have the requisite experience of successfully executing real life improvement projects. If he has just got training then probably he might be a novice with theoretical knowledge but no practical experience. The greatest skill needed by such a professional is stakeholder management. He needs to take people along because he is moving towards bringing about change and any change is bound to face resistance. Hence he should have people management skills coupled with his knowledge of Six Sigma, Lean  etc.  People management skills are inculcated through experience. Hence he/she should have executed a few DMAIC/ DMADV projects which would be a proof of his overall skills.

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No. End to end project completion is desirable but not always a reality. There are plenty of people who apply Six Sigma tools with finesse in their limited areas of opportunity or conduct maybe one or two phases of an end to end project (depending on management mandate). The complexity of their analyses is often a better indicator of expertise than project completion. 

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6 hours ago, Venugopal R said:

YES

As a Lean Six Sigma improvement program manager,  the person will have to deal with strategic, tactical and cultural aspects of a change management. The tactical portion involves knowledge and experience in applying specific tools. The cultural component involves dealing with people behavior, within team and across stakeholders. One of the most popular challenges to face during and improvement implementation is to overcome resistance to change and to obtain stakeholder buy-in. Each leader has his / her own ways of dealing with such situations. However, unless the person has actually undergone these situations as part of leading an improvement program,  he / she would not have developed those capabilities. This is one of the main objectives of ensuring that the person has experience of leading a project using a structured methodology, and that's what DMAIC / DMADV represent. So long as we are able to recognize that the person possesses such experience, whether we call it DMAIC or by any other terminology, it may be acceptable. These terminologies are just popular ones that convey a form of PDCA cycle,  but we need not get tied down by just these phrases.

 

Agreeing with Venugopal that an implementation manager not only needs the experience of PI/Lean principles, but also needs the traits of initiating and implementing Process change initiatives that would sometimes face resistance. Having some past experience in implementing or atleast working on a successful/even failed projects would help the manager to not only evaluate a project before initiating it but also to do some ground work on FMEA which would be very much needed in case of any setbacks that he/she might face. 

 

Having experience in the same industry would be of good help to efficiently take the project forward but not necessarily complete it in a most effective way whereas cross-industry experience would help the otherway around. I support my argument with Toyota's example where the idea of using Kanban was advocated into Toyota by Kiichiri Toyoda who felt implementing the supermarket way of replenishment would reduce the inventory on shop floor where the learning/experience in observing a service industry had helped improve the process of automobile industry.

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48 minutes ago, Venugopal R said:

When you say LSSBB professional, doesn’t it imply that he / she comes with the relevant experience?

Each LSSBB professional may not possess the relevant experience, knowledge and skill-sets to perform the job but; he / she is still considered as a professional

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Guest smitha.varkey@allianz.com

No. It shouldn’t be a criteria that a person has to be certified in DMAIC/DMADV. What has to be considered is that if they have the problem solving capabilities. This they would have acquired through their experiences over the years which no certification will be able to

do.

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NO.

first of all what is basically a DMAIC OR DMADV? They are data driven quality strategy used for improvement.

My some points

1) Do you really recommend dabbawala to hire a DMAIC strategist.

2) If DMAIC is the master tool then why a big names in the world went down and became bankcrupt including manufacturing giants ( dont wana mention name).

3) the 7 wonders of the world was the combine effort of the skill set used.

4) There are lots of alternate ways to carry a projects, example lean. 

 

In my point of view you need a team of skilled people who is passionate/motivated/ ready to learn and apply skills, who work  to take a vision of the company forward just like an owner will put an efforts to make his company a big brand. In that case every strategy will be successful.

 

Would like to take on comments

Regards

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Yes and no, both !

 

 I take my own example where I was different before the lean six sigma training and I feel more confident and better.

 

at the same time, one of my friend who hasn’t done any formal training or certification but whenever I discuss things on this, he always explains and talks not less than a certified person.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Venugopal R said:

YES

 

When the role is a managerial one, it is highly recommended to ensure that the person has hands-on experience in carrying out a project. Maybe it could be relaxed at a junior level, where the company would have the scope of getting him / her mentored. In fact, any good Blackbelt certification program will have the criteria to lead and complete a project using the structured approach. Some of the ambassadors had mentioned that the person could have come from a "Lean" background. This is also acceptable, so long as a project has been completed applying the appropriate tools. DMAIC / DMADV applies there as well.

Hi Venugopal

I differ to your statement , that DMAIC and DMADV applies everywhere. An A3 project will never be considered a Black belt DMAIC or DMADV project. 

Continuous Improvement Manager role in essence is a role , that is looked as , one where the person is capable of identifying improvements, planning for them and executing them. Mainly a self starter attitude, motivating others, working in a collaborative environment and excellent communication is desired in this role other than the Lean Six Sigma skills awareness. If he has done a project using some other CI framework like Lean, or even for Lean -IT, or ITIL Lean , etc , he can still apply for the role and be selected. 

 

It is dependent on whether the organization hiring clearly understands, what is required of the individual , depending on what they follow in their  Delivery excellence Business Unit to drive Continuous Improvements. 

 

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YES

Captaincy is 90% luck and 10% skill. But don't try it without that 10% - Richie Benaud, former Australian Test All-rounder, Cricket Commentator and Author

 

Ambassador

Argument

Submission

Priyer

It is necessary to have Lean Six Sigma skills and awareness about it, but executing a DMAIC or DMADV is not necessary. The person can also come from a Lean background and apply his experience derived by following the other methodology cycle followed for Lean projects (12 week cycle or 16 week cycles or A3 approach) to be succesful in improvement manager role.

How can the Manager without experience of a complete project add value to his reports and the SS Project team? Even if he is sincere and committed, the inability to add value will show up the Manager

Kavitha Sundar

As per the previous question, if the organisation does not allow the BB/ GB to do a DMAIC project, the opportunity is not given to him to prove his skill set. 

 

But in such cases, he can only refresh his knowledge and simulate a project experience and move on to next firm if there is an opportunity.


Hence the BB / GB should be ready to take up a project and prove his skill set at any point in time even if we don't get an opportunity.

He can also use lean approach instead of DMAIC / DMADV. 

So, the project using DMAIC / DMADV methodology application should not be a road block for his career growth.

This is a different question and nothing is mentioned about the organisation not allowing a project

 

 

Simulation is no substitute for the actual experience

 

 

If the Improvement Manager restricts himself only to Lean projects, then many improvement opportunities could be lost

 

 

By not doing any SS projects, both his career would not develop and the organization will lose out on improvements

Togy Jose

 

I would have preferred to say Yes, but there isn’t a lot of adoption by Organization around Lean Six Sigma methodologies - which means even if an individual has put in a lot of effort in getting certified, he/she may not get to work on a project because the org is not interested. So, for selecting a BB - an MBB or a highly experienced BB should have an in depth conversation with the candidate to just check for conceptual clarity / aptitude / functional experience / maturity level etc

  1. Given that in some industries (eg: Consulting)   where LSS is not encouraged but there are enough high quality profiles, would we want to be limited by this requirement?
  2. Even if someone were to claim having done a project end to end, there is no way to review the data and verify the findings on account of confidentiality. So we’ll limit ourselves to just checking only conceptual clarity anyway.
  3. Not every LSS intervention needs to be a project, even a well-timed and well-documented FMEA can help with prioritised corrective action or a well documented QFD can help with a well structured design process. So a certified BB who has a done a lot standalone interventions deserves a chance. 

Standards cannot be diluted just because organizations are not following the SS Methodology

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The profile would not be that high quality if there were no SS Project experience

 

 

 

 

This cannot be a reason for leaving out the requirements

Possible to understand the truth by repeated questioning

 

 

Agreed that not every LSS intervention needs to be a project. Tools were, are and will be used by themselves. But by not having SS project experience, the main benefits of the SS Methodology are lost

Atul Dev

Completion of a Six Sigma project depends on opportunity

That is fine. But not having an opportunity still remains a drawback

Alex Fernandes

.completion of a full-fledged DMAIC or DMADV project not be an essential criterion for the hiring of a Lean Six Sigma BlackB Belt professional in an improvement manager job role and this is one huristic that the feternity needs to change.

 

It is important for the interviewer to assess candidate's knowledge and project completion is a good source to gauge from but this is not always true.  Reasons:

1.  Genuinity of projects cannot always be verified.

2. Success of the project cannot be established.

3. Level of participation of candidate in the project cannot always be checked.

 

In fact, projects could be misleading and could give an upper edge to undeserving candidates.

 

It is important for a candidate to know and apply SixSigma tools and techniques and that could be established even without a full fledged project.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Leading interview questions can reveal the truth

Same as above

Same as above

Phani Kumar. N

 

Since Six Sigma is an approach for process improvement, a person experienced in the area of operation acquiring skills and the techniques to be implemented for process improvement can be a better pick than a person who has handled improvement projects in other areas. However, nowadays there is a need for doing Projects has become a pre-requisite for handling Business Excellence function when it comes to hiring by organizations.  This I look as a drawback in hiring process.

The USP of the SS Methodology is its completeness of approach. Expertise in this completeness is acquired only by completing projects. All other related skills cannot make up for a lack of experience in completing sufficient number of projects in various roles like member, leader, mentor and so on

Rajesh Chakrabarty

I do agree on the point about a person having experience in the area of operations acquiring skill and technique.... This person can definitely be of great help to the project lead/improvement Manager.....especially for FMEA

The experience is never complete without the project.

Nazim

Because identifying the improvements are not dependent on the experience of DMAIC & DMADV, the candidate should be aware of how to find the areas of improvement and drive business benefit out of it

Unless the candidate is experienced in various nuances of the methodology that is best learnt by doing different types of projects, the person will never be sufficiently aware

Arunesh Ramalingam

In my opinion it should be a "Good to have" requirement. I strongly feel the following two aspects should be given more importance:

 

1. The Professional's familiarity and understanding of Lean Six Sigma concepts and his attitude/thought process towards the concept of "Continuous improvement". This aspect would indicate if the person would be able to identify, initiate and promote improvement activities. 

2. The Professional's overall job experience. This would highlight his skills related to working in a team, leading projects, ability to communicate with the management, handling conflicts and so on which are critical for executing any six-sigma project.

 

I would agree that a person with prior project execution experience may be more familiar with all the aspects of project execution, but he may not be essentially a keen promoter of continuous improvement culture. Also, the ambience under which he completed the projects is an unknown factor. For example, there could have been high level of support that he received from the management and his team, enabling him to complete the projects. On the other hand, a professional with the right attitude and skills may turn out to be a better option (albeit with some mentoring or learning gap). 

 

The points 1 and 2 identified above could be evaluated with well drafted detailed interview questions involving case study analysis and presentations. The completion of a full-fledged DMAIC or DMADV project should be a "good-to-have" requirement, and making it an essential criterion may not be the right thing to do.

Knowing Arunesh’s performance in the competitions, first reaction on the lighter side would be, “Et tu, Brute” :-)

 

The question is only about the essentiality of project experience and nothing to do with attitude. A person’s ability to identify, initiate and promote improvement activities will be complete only with relevant project experience.

 

Merely having those skills is insufficient. What is required is using the skills effectively in projects.

 

 

 

If the person were not a keen promoter of Continuous Improvement culture, the person would not have applied for the role in the first place.

 

Same as above

 

 

 

Same as 1 above

 

 

 

 

As mentioned above, the candidate’s likelihood of success lies in understanding the full potential of the SS Methodology which is best achieved in performing different types of projects.

 

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