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3 hours ago, Sumanta Das said:

Yes... I gave the example because after crossing all those sigma steps still faulty cars or products are coming. Toyota is famous, almost all Japanies companies are.... they invested a lot of time and money and skill set to prevent it but failed. Beacuse there is always a chance of error/faluty products, no one can eliminate that 100%. Hence.....

Hi

You are saying that after crossing all sigma level all Japanese car makeer still fail to stop deliver fault. I want to say that who not fails,  why only Japanese car makers,  Japanese are the best in world to deliver quality products.  About failing then I would like to say every individual,  every organisation fails to achieve their goals once or sometimes in their life span,  even world's most technical centre NASA and India most technical centre they have also failed during their mission but rather then failed I would like to call it as an experience and getting an opportunity for improvement and that's the approach of any organisation and here comes the role of leanand continous improvement.  By controlling all factor they work to achieve best to satisfy their customer and to make profit and grown in future. 

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I agree with Ms.  Reena And Ms.  Kavitha but I would like to add some points to explain more for Mr Venugopal as I am not agree with you because here we are not talking about zero defect in general. W

There are many situations where we really require zero defect. like already pointed out "Surgical set up" , or a "plane landing". The question here is not about zero defect required or not.. It is abo

Against:-   Zero defect is a Nirvana stage. When there is no waste, no unwanted activities in process of making a product. No matter how much money you invest, there will always be

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Zero defects is achievable:

My view is Zero defect is achievable one.

Zero defects is a concept that mentions that Defects are not acceptable and Do things Right at the very First Time.

Involvement of the Top Level management to the Bottom level workers, Rigid Error Proof Systems, Tight Inspection of the Products & continuous improvement are the possible methods to achieve Zero Defects.

Zero defects concept also involves the Cost of the error Proofing system & their maintenance.. If the Top management is mainly focused on Zero Defects & the Cost is secondary then it will be a Great idea.

Similarly in a Company there are some Zero defect Lines &  it is being achieved in those lines....  

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It totally depends how u take zero defect....

Example ATM machine ....please let me know if anyone entered an amount and have got different amount from atm machine...

Zero defect is achievable...but it also depend on process which is under observation....

 

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2 hours ago, Vastupal Vashisth said:

Hi

You are saying that after crossing all sigma level all Japanese car makeer still fail to stop deliver fault. I want to say that who not fails,  why only Japanese car makers,  Japanese are the best in world to deliver quality products.  About failing then I would like to say every individual,  every organisation fails to achieve their goals once or sometimes in their life span,  even world's most technical centre NASA and India most technical centre they have also failed during their mission but rather then failed I would like to call it as an experience and getting an opportunity for improvement and that's the approach of any organisation and here comes the role of leanand continous improvement.  By controlling all factor they work to achieve best to satisfy their customer and to make profit and grown in future. 

Well I think, the question is whether zero defect is achievable or not. So what six sigma following companies are doing to keep their band values after sell, is that really gets counted? So, once again I will firm my stand - zero defect is almost impossible to maintain real life situation.

 

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On 09/12/2017 at 10:24 AM, Kavitha Sundar said:

Hi All,

 

Good to see the hot discussion.

 

@ Rajesh R -  in the previous questions, most of us answered saying with employee engagement and motivation, acheiving zero defect is possible.  but now arguing it is not possible. ok. If you talk about SLA, then the customer requires your product with highest quality spec set by the client lets say >95% and 98%. But my argument is , if you consistently deliver a product with 100% quality which means zero defect, will the client not accept it? 

 

The client will be happy with the quality and service that we provide. If we consistently satisfy the customer, the sales and profit would increase.

 

Overall, having zero defect concept is always beneficial to the organisation. It is achievable.

Hi Kavitha. In those questions, we were trying to find the optimum ways of utilizing or cajoling the team to incorporate management/leadership team's mantra of process improvement activities which can help to achieve in zero defects. There are 2 things to be noted here. 1. Engaging the team was to create the mindset so that it sets into the DNA of the workforce.  2. Zero defects is a management myth to create a buzz. This is akin to.the saying " Aim at the star and shoot at the sky".

 

So aim for the best and finally get closer to it. W.r.t 100 % quality, yes customer would be happy if he/she gets it but can the provider of a service or a product maker can confidently say that his/her process or product is 100% defect free and vouch for it before the service/product is delivered/created? Only tutorial centres will say (lie in most cases) that ..

"Join us and we will make you pass.

100% guarantee" . Bottom line is a process or product cannot guarantee you 100% defect free service or product.

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9 hours ago, Ronaaq said:

 

 

 

 

Against:-

 

Zero defect is a Nirvana stage.

When there is no waste, no unwanted activities in process of making a product.

No matter how much money you invest, there will always be some waste generated/ some activity that is a not adding any value to the product.

 

You take any organization with world class equipment,processes, technologies. They are still struggling to achieve Zero Defect, because it is practically impossible.

 

I am not telling that Organization should stop working to achieve zero defect.

Considering "Zero defect" as a concept is brilliant. It motivates and drives people for continuous improvement.

 

If Zero defect is possible why do organization struggle to achieve 6sigma level. i.e 3.4 DPMO.

why don't they target higher sigma level where there is 0 DPMO.

six sigma is only one aspect of Zero Defect

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Ronaaq

I do agree with you that there are activities where waste is generated and serving this waste as non value adding but on the other side of this if we see clearly these non value adding items sometimes necessary to finish a value adding activity,  there are so many examples of the same in manufacturing industries. 

I would like say that all organisations are working hard rather  than struggling to achieve zero defects because they know it is achievable. 

I agree considering zero defect as concept is brilliant and will help to motivate and inspire people for continuous improvement and that's what any organisation wants,  to do continous improvement for better future. Because they know doing continous improvement is the way to succeed in future by keeping low waste and applying lean technique keeping in mind organisation goals. 

I am not saying six sigma is the only one expect. I don't agree with this because there are industries where we need more sigma than six sigma like aerospace industry we used to have twelve sigma.  Because they know they can achieve their targets and can achieve zero defects. 

I already mentioned that achieving zero defect is possible.  It totally depends onany individual or any organisation how they are interpreting it.  For some food industry zero effect is to Good quality,  for restaurants zero defect is customers delight,  for manufacturing industry defect free product and to make profit and to grow,  for a teacher zero defect may be to have scorecard of every student more than 80%.. And many more so it's the way how we are seeing zero defect and yes it is achievable. 

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1 hour ago, Sumanta Das said:

Well I think, the question is whether zero defect is achievable or not. So what six sigma following companies are doing to keep their band values after sell, is that really gets counted? So, once again I will firm my stand - zero defect is almost impossible to maintain real life situation.

 

Well I never said six sigma following companies are achieving zero defect,  its the way how we seeing zero defect.  It is different for everyone,  it's about to their goals,  profit,  customer delight,  changes from individual to individual and organisation to organisations.  Its about to continous improvement.. You are saying companies who are delivering faulty products they can't achieve zero defect, I don't agree with this,  zero defect is possible everywhere but it will take lone time and need to sustain and continuous improvement with reducing waste by achieving targets and goals that has been decided by keeping all values in mind. 

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2 hours ago, Atul Sharma said:

It totally depends how u take zero defect....

Example ATM machine ....please let me know if anyone entered an amount and have got different amount from atm machine...

Zero defect is achievable...but it also depend on process which is under observation....

 

I do agree with you,  even atm machine does not accept card which is inserted in wrong direction. It depends which process and what and how we are seeing it and yes it is achievable. 

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2 hours ago, KARTHIK MARIMUTHU said:

Zero defects is achievable:

My view is Zero defect is achievable one.

Zero defects is a concept that mentions that Defects are not acceptable and Do things Right at the very First Time.

Involvement of the Top Level management to the Bottom level workers, Rigid Error Proof Systems, Tight Inspection of the Products & continuous improvement are the possible methods to achieve Zero Defects.

Zero defects concept also involves the Cost of the error Proofing system & their maintenance.. If the Top management is mainly focused on Zero Defects & the Cost is secondary then it will be a Great idea.

Similarly in a Company there are some Zero defect Lines &  it is being achieved in those lines....  

Yes you are saying right I do agree with you this as you explained its doing things right first time 

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On 12/9/2017 at 12:48 PM, Vastupal Vashisth said:

Hi Sumanta 

 

Thanks for your explanation of the topic.  You are giving about failure of airbag,  sensor fault.  It ok I agree that defect has been passed or caught somewhere in process,  so what does it indicates that big companies recalled vehicles.  It about the reputation,  image of brand because companies still wants to delight their customers. They don't want to take risk of their life,  they recalled all vehicles to reconfirm or change the setup so that everyone will be safe who are having airbag and sensor which is produced in the time period when was defective price detected and manufactured. So companies spent a lot of money to handle this,  why just to build value in customer eyes so that they can believe on companies and their service because companies not want to give any trouble to their customers. 

So whatever they did,  they have done some improvements to stop outflow of defective pieces. 

It's all about to work continues to reduce waste and improve continue process day by day and satisfy the customers a dn make profit and growth. 

Hi Sumantha,

 

As Vastupal said rightly, the defect car is not produced continuously. knowing that the defect has happened, any organisation would die to implement some of the six sigma tools like RCA, Poke yoke, etc to rectify the mistake knowing the error is costly.

 

I agree with the story that they recalled the cars due to its possessed defects, but they did not produce the same knowing that zero defect is not possible.

 

They would have definitely worked towards achieving zero defects since the damage to the users of the product is high, if the product possess any defect. 

 

 

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On 12/9/2017 at 1:48 PM, Ronaaq said:

 

 

 

 

Against:-

 

Zero defect is a Nirvana stage.

When there is no waste, no unwanted activities in process of making a product.

No matter how much money you invest, there will always be some waste generated/ some activity that is a not adding any value to the product.

 

You take any organization with world class equipment,processes, technologies. They are still struggling to achieve Zero Defect, because it is practically impossible.

 

I am not telling that Organization should stop working to achieve zero defect.

Considering "Zero defect" as a concept is brilliant. It motivates and drives people for continuous improvement.

 

If Zero defect is possible why do organization struggle to achieve 6sigma level. i.e 3.4 DPMO.

why don't they target higher sigma level where there is 0 DPMO.

six sigma is only one aspect of Zero Defect

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Ronaq, 

 

When there is a waste, the defects would be huge. i agree to the point that if there are no defects, it would never require any investment. 

 

You say that most of the organisations work at 3.4 DPMO. so if the aviation or hospital at surgical set up works at 3.4 DPMO in all the cases that they handle would we agree?

 

If we don't agree, why is it so? why are we expecting zero defects?

 

 

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On 12/9/2017 at 2:43 PM, Venugopal R said:

Yes, always “tend” towards ZD, which means reduce wastes. What is considered value adding today may not be so in future, due to tech and process advancements. The pursuit will continue, and expectations will also keep raising its bar.

Hi Sir,

 

Yes. In terms of value, what is considered today is not value tomorrow due to tech advancements. 

 

That's why we require a team who can proactively work upon the market advancements and incorporate changes to the system wherever required.

 

Operational excellence or process excellence team should also work as a change leader and any organisation should welcome the change upcoming for the growth of the organisation.

 

Also, if you see any business, that will not have very frequent updates in the system. Any business would undergo process maturity levels and then optimize.

 

 

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23 hours ago, KARTHIK MARIMUTHU said:

Zero defects is achievable:

My view is Zero defect is achievable one.

Zero defects is a concept that mentions that Defects are not acceptable and Do things Right at the very First Time.

Involvement of the Top Level management to the Bottom level workers, Rigid Error Proof Systems, Tight Inspection of the Products & continuous improvement are the possible methods to achieve Zero Defects.

Zero defects concept also involves the Cost of the error Proofing system & their maintenance.. If the Top management is mainly focused on Zero Defects & the Cost is secondary then it will be a Great idea.

Similarly in a Company there are some Zero defect Lines &  it is being achieved in those lines....  

Hi Karthik,

 

Yes. Zero defect is always underlined with doing things first time right as you said rightly.

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23 hours ago, Atul Sharma said:

It totally depends how u take zero defect....

Example ATM machine ....please let me know if anyone entered an amount and have got different amount from atm machine...

Zero defect is achievable...but it also depend on process which is under observation....

 

Hi Atul,

 

100% correct. 

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21 hours ago, R Rajesh said:

Hi Kavitha. In those questions, we were trying to find the optimum ways of utilizing or cajoling the team to incorporate management/leadership team's mantra of process improvement activities which can help to achieve in zero defects. There are 2 things to be noted here. 1. Engaging the team was to create the mindset so that it sets into the DNA of the workforce.  2. Zero defects is a management myth to create a buzz. This is akin to.the saying " Aim at the star and shoot at the sky".

 

So aim for the best and finally get closer to it. W.r.t 100 % quality, yes customer would be happy if he/she gets it but can the provider of a service or a product maker can confidently say that his/her process or product is 100% defect free and vouch for it before the service/product is delivered/created? Only tutorial centres will say (lie in most cases) that ..

"Join us and we will make you pass.

100% guarantee" . Bottom line is a process or product cannot guarantee you 100% defect free service or product.

Hi Rajesh,

 

if you buy a car, do they possess defects? Never. Even after the design phase, the organisation will do test drives to confirm if the design is successful, then they go on with bulk production. in such cases, is 100% defect free product not delivered?

 

While building a house, the electrical work done is successful without any defects. No free wires hung anywhere is only to prevent shocks and error proofing is applied in terms of switches.  is that not 100% zero defect service?

 

As Atul stated, in ATM machines, the amount whatever we enter only we are getting. We are not getting less or excess. only in terms of fund insufficiency, the ATM will not be able to deliver cash to the customer. Is it not zero defect service?

 

There are products and services that are achieving zero defects in their work place to delight their customers.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Kavitha Sundar said:

Hi Sir,

 

Yes. In terms of value, what is considered today is not value tomorrow due to tech advancements. 

 

That's why we require a team who can proactively work upon the market advancements and incorporate changes to the system wherever required.

 

Operational excellence or process excellence team should also work as a change leader and any organisation should welcome the change upcoming for the growth of the organisation.

 

Also, if you see any business, that will not have very frequent updates in the system. Any business would undergo process maturity levels and then optimize.

 

 

Hi Kavitha

Rightly said about technology advancements and upgrading. This alps goes with continuous improvement,  upgrading with time to time by fulfilling customer expectations and their satisfaction resulting business growth and revenue generation 

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2 hours ago, Kavitha Sundar said:

Hi Rajesh,

 

if you buy a car, do they possess defects? Never. Even after the design phase, the organisation will do test drives to confirm if the design is successful, then they go on with bulk production. in such cases, is 100% defect free product not delivered?

 

While building a house, the electrical work done is successful without any defects. No free wires hung anywhere is only to prevent shocks and error proofing is applied in terms of switches.  is that not 100% zero defect service?

 

As Atul stated, in ATM machines, the amount whatever we enter only we are getting. We are not getting less or excess. only in terms of fund insufficiency, the ATM will not be able to deliver cash to the customer. Is it not zero defect service?

 

There are products and services that are achieving zero defects in their work place to delight their customers.

 

 

Well said Kavitha,  it's the way how we are doing interpretation of Achieving zero defect and where we are applying it.  There are no  many examples like this where 100% defect free products and output available to finish the work or to delight their customers. 

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On 12/9/2017 at 1:48 PM, Ronaaq said:

 

 

 

 

Against:-

 

Zero defect is a Nirvana stage.

When there is no waste, no unwanted activities in process of making a product.

No matter how much money you invest, there will always be some waste generated/ some activity that is a not adding any value to the product.

 

You take any organization with world class equipment,processes, technologies. They are still struggling to achieve Zero Defect, because it is practically impossible.

 

I am not telling that Organization should stop working to achieve zero defect.

Considering "Zero defect" as a concept is brilliant. It motivates and drives people for continuous improvement.

 

If Zero defect is possible why do organization struggle to achieve 6sigma level. i.e 3.4 DPMO.

why don't they target higher sigma level where there is 0 DPMO.

six sigma is only one aspect of Zero Defect

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I completely agree with this.

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On 12/9/2017 at 9:15 PM, Atul Sharma said:

It totally depends how u take zero defect....

Example ATM machine ....please let me know if anyone entered an amount and have got different amount from atm machine...

Zero defect is achievable...but it also depend on process which is under observation....

 

Fortunately I have a experience of the same. I have entered 500 it gave me 600 from SBI atm, Kolkata, Belghoria Branch. I went to bank manager and explained the story, he gave me form and that needs to fill up say 30 minutes of time. After that I said - I will keep the extra amount next if ever happen with me rather than filling up such big form.

 

Even many people may heard about this - long before - enter some amount into ATM and when trailer machine starts counting money cancel your transaction and money used to come! Thank god now this does not happen anymore. 

 

Error can happen any time, any where, ZERO DEFECT practically is not possible for mass production. 

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1 minute ago, Sumanta Das said:

Fortunately I have a experience of the same. I have entered 500 it gave me 600 from SBI atm, Kolkata, Belghoria Branch. I went to bank manager and explained the story, he gave me form and that needs to fill up say 30 minutes of time. After that I said - I will keep the extra amount next if ever happen with me rather than filling up such biog form.

Dear Sumantha

That's out of the box...

I think you have been lucky in term of money...

That can be in case of malfunction of machine....the possibility of defect can cause by following factors

MAN

MACHINE

MATERIAL

METHOD

ENVIORNMENT

MATERIAL HANDLING

I call it as 5M and 1E.

The above are the reason for variations and thus causing defect..

Maintaining the above in control limits...you will not get the defects...though oppurtunities of variation will always be there...

It is also true that achieving zero defect can be very costly since it require lot of inspection to make the product defect free...it also can effect the philosophy of continuous improvement....

Regards

 

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41 minutes ago, Sumanta Das said:

Fortunately I have a experience of the same. I have entered 500 it gave me 600 from SBI atm, Kolkata, Belghoria Branch. I went to bank manager and explained the story, he gave me form and that needs to fill up say 30 minutes of time. After that I said - I will keep the extra amount next if ever happen with me rather than filling up such big form.

 

Even many people may heard about this - long before - enter some amount into ATM and when trailer machine starts counting money cancel your transaction and money used to come! Thank god now this does not happen anymore. 

 

Error can happen any time, any where, ZERO DEFECT practically is not possible for mass production. 

Hi Sumantha 

 

As Atul said rightly about defects and defective cause that 5M and one E.  These are some causes of defective and to control variation in these. SUMANTHA you also mentioned that now days it doesn't happen anymore, because they have rectified the problem,  thats what every organisation doing and they found a solution so that no such issues repeat in future because they want to delight their customers a d they know they can achieve zero defects and solve the problem of money withdrawn and other issues. 

Every organisation is doing continous improvement and that's the approach to achieve zero defects. 

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Hi All

 

Enclosing an article I came across which supports the concept that Zero defect is achievable; how it is achievable?

 

Intelligent Approach to Zero defect manufacturing.docx

 

Zero defects basically works on two premises:

1. Defects reduction

2. Waste elimination

 

With a proactive approach right from the beginning of the process; continuous monitoring - evaluating - implementing, one can definitely achieve a stage of zero defect. It may take a couple of cycles...to assess, to reform...to ultimately reach a stage of zero defect. One cannot perpetually have defects in a system which is put through stringent checks and has well-controlled processes and default detecting mechanism.

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